EP 2: THE Interrogation
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EPISODE 2 Video of the interrogation
Bates Investigates
Episode 2 ׀ Daniel Holtzclaw: The Interrogation
[OPENING MUSIC]
Disclaimer: This podcast deals with adult subject matter, including depictions of drug addiction, prostitution, sexual assault, and rape. Parental guidance is suggested.
00:37 [OPENING AUDIO COLLAGE]
Newscaster: Officer Daniel Holtzclaw, with the Police Department for three years, is accused of raping and sexually assaulting women he pulled over while on the job.
Jannie Ligons: He said, ‘Come on, come on, just a minute, just a minute’. I say, ‘Sir, I can’t do this’. I say, ‘you gonna shoot...’
Det. Kim Davis: Tell me your description of him.
Sherri Ellis: He’s black.
Det. Kim Davis: He’s b—okay, he’s a black male.
Det. Kim Davis: What did your daughter tell you?
Amanda Gates: She said, ‘I met this really hot cop’.
Shardayreon Hill: So, this is good evidence?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, you tell me.
[OPENING AUDIO COLLAGE ENDS]
Timestamp: The following episode contains investigative events which occurred on June 18, 2014.
01:23
Host: Welcome back to Season One of Bates Investigates, the podcast. I am your host, Oklahoma native and licensed Private Investigator, Brian Bates. But more importantly to this story, I was a member of the defendant’s original criminal defense team. This is the serialized podcast of Oklahoma vs. Daniel Holtzclaw. This is an exceptionally lengthy episode. You may have noticed in the podcast description that this particular episode comes in at about two hours. If you are a true crime podcast fan, you’re probably use to these interrogations being edited down for time and content. In this case though, I think it’s important to provide the entirety of this interrogation so that you don’t get the opinion that I’ve somehow cherry picked what to include or exclude, based on some sort of bias that I have. That being said, if you don’t have the time or the interest in listening to a two hour interrogation, you can jump to the next episode where I will be providing a condensed version of the interrogation with my comments and opinions. I’m also putting the full length video version of this interrogation on this season’s homepage at holtzclawtrial.com, if you want to see Daniel’s body language, get more insights as to interrogation techniques, or just something more than what you can get with just the audio version. With all that out of the way, I’m going to just jump right into it. You will recall from the last episode that Sex Crimes Detectives Kim Davis and Rocky Gregory had just confronted Patrol Officer Holtzclaw at the Springlake Briefing Station just before his 4:00pm line-up. Davis and Gregory told Holtzclaw that there was a fifty-seven year old black female who was making claims against him regarding an off-the-clock traffic stop he performed around 2:00am that very morning. Holtzclaw admitted to the traffic stop and agreed to go with the detectives downtown to be questioned. Once the three arrived at headquarters, Holtzclaw was relieved of his Glock service revolver and it was stored away in Lieutenant Muzny’s desk drawer. Lieutenant Muzny is Detective Davis and Gregory’s boss.
03:26
I’m going to let this play virtually in its entirety. The only editing I have done is to occasionally add my voiceover to describing anything of significance going on, to edit out any long periods of silence when detectives leave Holtzclaw alone in the room, and I’ve also edited out Holtzclaw saying his girlfriend’s cell phone number and place of employment. The scene opens with Holtzclaw being led to what is often referred to as The Box. It’s a tiny, windowless room, with a simple table sandwiched next to a very basic office chair that Holtzclaw actually has trouble fitting his massive physique into. This room is intentionally not a comfortable or inviting space. From the looks of it, it appears to measure out at about eight by eight.
[RECORDING BEGINS]
Det. Rocky Gregory: Welcome to our domain. Now, what’s your first name?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Daniel.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Daniel. Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Daniel, just have a sit in here.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Which seat would you like me in?
Det. Rocky Gregory: You gotta piss or anything? You can have a sit there. That’s probably more comfortable.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I mean, I can hold it, I’m not—
Det. Rocky Gregory: [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m just…
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right, I’m gonna move right on out. Uh, whatever’s more comfortable, man.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: That’ll work.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: At this point, Holtzclaw has entered the tiny interrogation room with Detective Rocky Gregory. Holtzclaw literally looks a little confused as he looks down at the chair and seems to think to himself, how am I going to shoehorn myself, with my duty belt on, into that? Almost immediately Detective Gregory excuses himself leaving Holtzclaw sitting uncomfortably and alone for almost a minute and a half.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05:11
Det. Kim Davis: [laughing] No chair for me. Let me bring a chair.
Daniel Holtzclaw: There’s…
[Det. Kim Davis exits room and re-enters with chair]
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was going to say there’s a chair right there.
Det. Kim Davis: Huh?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was going to say there’s a chair right there.
Det. Kim Davis: No, but I had, uh, back surgery.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: A year ago. Rocky’s coming, but he ain’t here yet. And I had a back fusion. Oh, this is about the only chair I can sit in. I don’t know what.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Does that help your back support?
Det. Kim Davis: It does. Well, no, it gives. It’s, um, it’s very giving. I’m turning this off because I don’t want this bugging us. [beeping noise] And, not to be yucky, but it’s low back where my back fusion is and I can put my butt right there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: So my tailbone’s not getting extra pressure on it. I don’t know. It, it—I can’t sit in one of those. It’ll kill me. Okay, Rocky’s coming.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: But I’m going to do this while—and he may walk in here in a minute—and get this done.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Uh, now, I know you’re an officer and I know you’ve seen these a thousand times.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And you’ve read them yourself.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: You still ask my any questions if you have one.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay? Don’t be embarrassed of that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think I’m already embarrassed [laughing] cause…
Det. Kim Davis: Why are you embarrassed? Why? Tell me why you’re embarrassed.
Daniel Holtzclaw: The station deal, so…
Det. Kim Davis: Nobody, well, I mean, there’s rumors flying.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Like, everyone [laughing]…
Det. Kim Davis: I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Everyone.
Det. Kim Davis: And we tried to do that as kind of quietly as we could, and that’s why we took you out the front and stuff, but this is gonna make the rumors go away.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. For you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: The rumor tomorrow is going to be on somebody else.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Does that make sense?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: So, let’s get them off of you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: And get them on to somebody else and get this over with.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay? All right. You have the right to remain silent.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: You understand that? Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you understand that? You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him or her present with you while you’re being questioned.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you understand that?
Det. Kim Davis: If you cannot afford to hire an attorney, one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you wish one.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: That noise you just heard was Detective Rocky Gregory as he slipped into the room and took a seat just off camera.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
07:47
Det. Kim Davis: If you decide to make a statement, you may stop the interview at any time.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you understand each of these rights I’ve explained to you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do.
Det. Kim Davis: Just write ‘yes’ or ‘I do’ or whatever right th—oh, you’re a lefty too. Okay, hold on. You shoot right handed but you write left handed?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I’m ambidextrous.
Det. Kim Davis: Me too.
Daniel Holtzclaw: A little bit.
Det. Kim Davis: I shoot right hand and write left handed. That’s—how—which do you, um…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I bat right handed and throw left handed.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, I’m the opposite. I throw right handed but I bat left handed.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I kick left footed.
Det. Kim Davis: No, I kick right footed. How do you eat?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Both hands.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, left for me. Okay, having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to me—uh, us—at this time without an attorney present?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes. That’s fine.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, write ‘yes’ right there. Read this out loud.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [clears throat] I have read the statement of my rights and understand what my rights are. I am willing to make a statement and answer any questions at this time. I do not want a attorney present at this time. I understand and know that what I’m doing, no promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or force of any kind has been used against me.
Det. Kim Davis: Agree?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Agree.
Det. Kim Davis: Sign. Print. [pen scratching] That’s too funny. I haven’t met anybody else that writes left handed and—it kind of creates a problem when you’re on a traffic stop, doesn’t it? Because you’re writing and…
Daniel Holtzclaw: What? The ticket book?
Det. Kim Davis: …holding your ticket book in this hand and your gun hand.
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, it doesn’t bother me.
Det. Kim Davis: It doesn’t bother you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It doesn’t bother me.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, that’s because you’re huge. [laughing] What’s your commission number?
Daniel Holtzclaw: 1782.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I masturbate right and left.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Oh, [laughing].
Det. Rocky Gregory: Does that work?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, I think I do that left handed.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Very good.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, I am dominant left.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You are?
Det. Kim Davis: Yes. [long pause] Okay, lo—just like I—we talked in the car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: Uh, you haven’t heard any rumors?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I haven’t heard any rumors.
Det. Kim Davis: So you…
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, when I walked in the station, I see Captain lean over, not unusual for Captain Clifton, hey, but, um… I kn—I’ve seen you and the Captain. I’ve never seen you, and so…
Det. Rocky Gregory: I’m a nobody.
Daniel Holtzclaw: But I haven’t heard anything.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, I’m just looking at things.
Det. Kim Davis: You, you had said, and we told you that, that there was a traffic stop.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: That somebody made some allegations against an officer.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: They don’t know the officer’s name. They don’t—none of that. Th—and you said that you made a traffic stop after work.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: But you didn’t call it in.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t call it in.
Det. Kim Davis: Where was that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It was about Northeast Fiftieth and Lincoln, just to the west.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Tell me about that stop.
10:22
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was going westbound on Northeast Fiftieth, probably a block just east of, uh, Lincoln, I see a red Grand Prix, or Grand Am, in my right lane—in the outside lane, I’m on in the inside lane—the car swerves, and so at the time I’m thinking okay it’s probably a drunk person or maybe got excited cause he saw a cop. So, I kind of f—fall behind it, kind of drifting just a little bit, not crossing lane lines, nothing crazy, so I light it up. Because it, at first, the first traffic violation I saw at first, when it swerved. And that was just west of, uh, Northeast Fiftieth and Lincoln. And then, made contact. It was a black female. Um, asked for license and insurance. Um, stated that she didn’t have insurance, gave me an ID. At the time, I’m like, ‘Do you have a valid insurance or valid license?’ She said, ‘No.’ I told her, ‘I just got off work, I mean, [laughing], what’s the deal? You know, why, why you swerving?’ And she says, uh, ‘I’m just trying to go home to Ann Arbor-ish on the northwest side…’ to see her daughter or something like that. Um, so, I asked, ‘Is there anything on board as far as the vehicle? Is it okay if I search your vehicle?’ And whatnot. And she said, ‘The only thing that’s inside there is a kool aid cup.’ I’m like, ‘Is there anything inside of that kool aid? Is there liquor or anything inside that kool aid?’ She’s, ‘No.’ I’m like, ‘Okay, is there anything else inside there?’ She says, ‘There’s pills.’ I’m like, ‘Is that the only thing?’ And then, so, I was, like, ‘Can I have permission to search your car?’ She says yes. I go inside the car and see a lot of pills. But, uh…
Det. Kim Davis: What kind of pills?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t really…
Det. Kim Davis: Like scattered pills or in a bottle pills?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She said it’s hydrocodone pills, but I just quickly glanced, looked at it, I think I saw her name on the prescription bottle, so I didn’t…
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, so it was a bottle?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: There was several bottles in her purse. And then, so, at that time, I just returned back to her. Was, like, um, ‘Okay, I saw your pills. I didn’t see any alcohol. I sniffed the drink, didn’t smell any alcohol in the kool aid.’ I’m like, ‘Okay, I’m—I’m just off work. I’m tired. Um, get your license taken care of.’
12:31
Det. Kim Davis: So, she didn’t have a driver’s license?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She didn’t have a driver’s license. And I was just, like, ‘Go to DPS. Uh, Department of Public Safety, on King. Get that taken care of.’ And I cut her loose after that.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Then where’d you go?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Then went straight home.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Um… do you remember her name?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: It was on the prescription bottle.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, um, do you make traffic stops normally after work?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t, but in that case I saw her swerve and whatnot, so I…
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, me. I don’t.
Daniel Holtzclaw: …felt [laughing].
Det. Kim Davis: After I get off work.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I know, I mean, people.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, the last thing I’d want’s a DUI.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Cops, they just have a, you know, whatnot.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Whatever.
Daniel Holtzclaw: They have a vision. Whatever. But I felt like I needed to make that traffic stop.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, how was she? Was she respectful? Was she not? Was she…
Daniel Holtzclaw: She felt like she was nervous and whatnot, and I’m like, ‘Why are you nervous?’ And she was even crying. I’m like, ‘Why are you crying? Why are you nervous?’ Whatnot, and she just like, ‘I don’t know. I’m just nervous because you’re a cop and I got pulled over.’ I’m like, ‘Nothing you’ve got to be nervous about.’ And I told her, I’m like, ‘I don’t really want to take you to jail for no SDL or anything. I just got off work. I’m tired.’ So, with my officer, uh, courtesy, or whatnot, I said, ‘Go get that taken care of tomorrow’ and let her on her way.
Det. Kim Davis: That’s fine. And you don’t have to ex—I’m not going to sit here and go, ‘Why didn’t you take her?’ da da da.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: I could care less.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Well, that’s, that’s the reason why.
Det. Kim Davis: No. I don’t care. Uh, was she drunk? Did you think she was drunk?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think she was, I think she was, she drank. But I don’t think she was—my experience, I don’t think she was past the legal limit.
Det. Kim Davis: Right. Right.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So…
Det. Kim Davis: So, I mean…
Daniel Holtzclaw: And that’s what I asked her too, is, like, with your pain medicines, hydrocodone, every kno—everyone knows that you drink with that it maximizes the effect, so I asked her that. She said no. But I, when she was in the back of my car and when I was in the front car of the driver’s seat, I could smell it off of her, but I don’t think she was still past the legal limit.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Okay. So you got her out of the car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, uh, and put her in the back of your car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, uh, any problems there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, she was cooperative. Didn’t give me any problems or any whatnot.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, and then you searched—did you run her through Unit 800?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Unh uh.
Det. Kim Davis: So, did you run her on your MDT?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t. All my, all my stuff as far as that—because I didn’t call it in and say I was on a traffic stop—my computer was off and everything as well.
15:01
Det. Kim Davis: Did you just shut if off after work?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I just shut it off, yeah, on my way. On Fiftieth I had turned it off right before the traffic stop basically.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, and where did you pick her up? Fiftieth and what about?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Fiftieth and Lincoln, just to the west.
Det. Kim Davis: But, now where’d you see her swerve kind of?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’d say a block just to the east of, uh, Lincoln and Fiftieth.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, did she pull over right away?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She was in the right lane, in the outside lane, when I saw her swerve, and so she saw a police car right there and so she kind of did what everyone does, slow down, kind of, ‘Okay, is he going to pull me over or not?’ And then I lit her up about Fiftieth and Lincoln, past the intersection to the west.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, when you, uh, when you put her in your car, did you pat search her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, when I came here I was like, ‘Lift up your shirt. Is there anything on you? Anything as far as your waistband or anything like that?’ She said, ‘No’ and then I put her in the vehicle and went from there. I asked her everything.
Det. Kim Davis: Did your hands go on her at all?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I backhanded—I backhanded on as far as the side.
Det. Kim Davis: Where on her body? Tell me. You backhanded.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Her waist. Her waist and backwards. I didn’t touch her butt or anything, but the back portion of her waist and then she lifted it up, like, right here and there’s nothing on it.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she lift it up like this?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so she never, like, went woo!?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Nothing to expose her breasts or anything like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. She asked me if I was. I was like, ‘No, that’s okay.’
Det. Kim Davis: She asked you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If I--‘You want to search me?’ I’m like, ‘No, that’s okay.’
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, so she never, like, put her hands on the car and you [makes patting noise with mouth].
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Okay. Uh, when you—where was she positioned or standing when you back, when you did your—the back of your hand on her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It was about probably the right, front right fender of the, of my patrol vehicle.
Det. Kim Davis: But did, was she facing you or was she turned around?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, she was facing away from me.
Det. Kim Davis: And you just kind of did it like this?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, backhand. Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, did you hand go on her butt or anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, that’s what I’m saying. It was the hip, the side, not the butt section.
Det. Kim Davis: What about right here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: They can tuck a gun right here.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s why I asked to lift it up.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, so she just kind of showed you her belly?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah. Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, then you talked to her for a little bit?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: In the, well, you, after you searched her…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: You put her in the back of the car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Then, we use to always kind of keep the door open and talk when they’re not, like, combative or anything.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you talk to her and get information then while she was in the back of your car?
17:16
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. I talked to her for a little bit just as far as, ‘What’s inside the vehicle? Can I have consent to search your vehicle?’ Um, ‘Is there anything in that kool aid? She said, ‘No.’ Um, just talked to her and ‘What’s the deal? Why are you driving late at two o’clock at night?’ You know. ‘Why did you swerve?’ Uh, said she’s going to Ann Arbor on the northwest side to visit her daughter I believe. So…
Det. Kim Davis: Then you went up and searched her car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: After she gave me consent to search her car.
Det. Kim Davis: How long do you think?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did a quick search to be honest with you. I didn’t—I looked under the seat, boom, sniffed the—sniffed the juice, whatever she’s had and I didn’t smell alcohol on it. I went through her purse like she said there’s—the pills in it. Looked through real quick to see if her name was there, and that was basically it.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, then when you went back to her…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: What happened?
Daniel Holtzclaw: When I went back to her I was like, ‘Okay, I didn’t smell any alcohol on your, your car and your juice thing.’ And I’m like, ‘What’s the deal? Are you really drunk or not?’ And she’s like, ‘No, I’m just trying to go back home.’ And at that time I was like, ‘Okay, look, I’ll go ahead and follow you.’ I said, ‘I’m not going to take you to jail. I’m tired. I’m not going to take you to jail. I’ll go ahead and follow you and let’s go back to Forty-Four and you head westbound on Forty-Four.’ So, that’s what we did.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you follow her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Actually, she—when I went behind her and we got in the car, she took forever and I started getting annoyed, so I just U-turned it and I went ahead and I saw in back view of my rearview mirror that she was following to Forty-Four, but then I took off going northbound on Broadway Extension while she took Forty-Four to go west.
Det. Kim Davis: So, you were able to see her do that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: And go, and then when you, did you lose her when you got on Broadway?
Daniel Holtzclaw: When I went to northbound on Broadway and she went Forty-Four west.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Okay. All right. Well, she’s, it, it sounds like this is the lady. I mean, this is the deal where she’s the complaining party.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, and she’s making some sexual allegations, obviously, because sex crimes is working it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. What’d she say?
Det. Kim Davis: Well, was there anything? A accidental touch? A anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If she thought it, uh, when I pat searched her. But I didn’t, it was nothing as far as—I felt like I didn’t do anything as far as sexual or anything like that. For my safety, I just checked to see if the weapons or anything.
Det. Kim Davis: And maybe…
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I…
Det. Kim Davis: …you had every right to do that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: To make clear, I didn’t—didn’t touch her butt—but the waist side and whatnot. If you would like me to do it in front of you to show you. [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: No, and I’m fine. I’m fine with it and you have every right to do that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: She’s saying that you made her lift up her shirt and she—and when she lifted up her shirt she exposed her breasts.
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you ever see her breasts?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I asked her, ‘Is there’—I asked her, ‘Is there anything inside your bra?’ and she said, ‘No.’ So, I was like, okay, and she said, ‘Do you want me to show you?’ and at that time I said, ‘No, no. You don’t need to do that.’
Det. Kim Davis: She said that. She said do you want—she said she was doing this when you said, ‘Is there anything inside your bra?’ and she was going, ‘No, I don’t have anything.’ Like, did she do that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, she did, but I didn’t look or anything like, like that.
Det. Kim Davis: Right.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And then she was like, ‘Do you want me to show you?’ and I was like, ‘No.’
Det. Kim Davis: She said when she said, ‘Do you want me to show you?’ you said, ‘Yeah’ and she went woo hoo.
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: But could she have been woo hoo flashing you, and now you don’t want to tell me because you’re afraid you’re going to get in trouble?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No, when I told her no, I said no.
Det. Kim Davis: Then she didn’t go whoop?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: You know, because sometimes drunk girls are…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Having a good time…
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah, and…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. No, that’s…
Det. Kim Davis: …partying down and let’s face it…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ve already heard stories about officers and whatnot...
Det. Kim Davis: …people….
Daniel Holtzclaw: …so I don’t want to.
Det. Kim Davis: … they want officers for hubbies or whatever.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t want, so I said no. I said no.
Det. Kim Davis: But you could have said no, but I’m asking you if she flashed you anyways.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t see her. I didn’t see her breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t see no boobies?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t see her breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: Alright, what about pants?
21:02
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing in her pants as far as I could see, because she was wearing tight jeans so…
Det. Kim Davis: She said she pulled them down.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t see it.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t see her pull them down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t see her pulling down pants.
Det. Kim Davis: Could she have done it when you were searching the car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She could have. I didn’t have her.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she have them on when…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t have her handcuffed or anything.
Det. Kim Davis: When you came back to the car and got her out, were her pants fastened? Were they?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, everything was still…
Det. Kim Davis: They were up and…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Everything was still intact and everything.
Det. Kim Davis: So you never saw her pull her pants down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Why do you think she’s making this up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you write her a ticket?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t. I let her go and I said, I said, ‘I won’t even arrest you for your no SDL.’
Det. Kim Davis: I’m trying to figure out why she would say that. I mean, I can see her saying it if you wrote her a ticket, because she’s pissed off.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Now, let me make it quite clear, if you saw her boobs, I don’t care, if she’s flashing you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did not see her breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: You did not see her boobies?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I did not see her breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: She’s saying you shined your light on her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did not see her breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: Where do you keep your flashlight?
Daniel Holtzclaw: My left side, right here, right behind my radio.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you have your flashlight out on the traffic stop?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did.
Det. Kim Davis: When she was going like this, did you have your flashlight on her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t. I didn’t go like that. But I—as I’m on the—like this, I had it positioned over us, but I didn’t—as far as that.
Det. Kim Davis: Right, but did you have it on her when you’re talking to her so you can see her? I mean, was it…
Daniel Holtzclaw: To see if…
Det. Kim Davis: …on her when she goes like this? Maybe she could have construed that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. To see, to see her inside the vehicle.
Det. Kim Davis: Was the dome light on?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The dome light was not on.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, it doesn’t come on? I don’t know how—does that come on when you open your back door?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Um.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s been too long since I’ve been in a scout car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I can’t recall to be honest with you [laughing]. I don’t think the, I don’t think the back, I don’t think it does, as far as the dome light.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. [long pause] I’m just trying to figure out… how long do you think you were on that traffic stop?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think it was…
Det. Kim Davis: And, it’s not a test. Just…
Daniel Holtzclaw: …in excess over a, a regular sp—fifteen minutes at most, just like a regular traffic stop. Nothing as far as more.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Fifteen minutes. How long were you with her? How long of that fifteen minutes do you think was searching her car where she’s—maybe she’s sitting in the back seat?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Like I said, I did a quick search. Probably at max, maybe a little bit over five minutes, maybe like five minutes if.
Det. Kim Davis: So you’re with her for ten minutes?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Talking to her, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Did it take a while to get her to consent to search or what? Ten minutes is a long time.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She was nervous and she was crying and stuff, and I told her not to be nervous.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she say why she was crying?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She said it’s a police officer and whatnot and ‘I’m just nervous because I got stopped by a police officer.’ So, I’m like, ‘Calm down. Everything’s fine.’ And then, so, I think maybe with the fact that she had no SDL, maybe she was nervous as well too, and then so I went to the search and it’s wasn’t that—it was a quick search like I said before. It wasn’t in detail—pulling up carpet. It was a quick search.
24:09
Det. Kim Davis: Because you were just ready to go home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was ready to go home.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you go home and go straight to bed?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I went home and went straight to bed.
Det. Kim Davis: All right. You think of anything yet?
Det. Rocky Gregory: I think that was pretty good. Wasn’t that pretty easy? Hey, we go to do this.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? You don’t mind? It’s, I got to take your, your buccals.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You remember doing that in the…?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s fine.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right.
Det. Kim Davis: Did we, did we buccal swab anybody in the academy?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: As a demonstration?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Here, write your name there, because I don’t even know how to spell it. I can barely spell my own.
Det. Kim Davis: How do you say his name?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Daniel Holtzclaw.
Det. Kim Davis: Holtzclaw. What is that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s, uh, German.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Hey, read that out.
Det. Kim Davis: Can you speak German?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, no, I can’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Hey, read that out loud to me.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s, yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, Daniel Holtzclaw, after having been advised of my right not to have a, a search made of my body here and after mentioned without a search warrant, and my right to refuse to consent to search a search to such a search hereby authorize Rocky Gregory, a detective of the Oklahoma City Police Department, to conduct a complete search of my body located at 701 Colcord, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Officers are authorized by me to take, uh, from my body samples of swabs from my body which they may desire. This written permission is being given by me to the above named police official volunteer, uh, voluntarily and without threats of promises of any kind.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Basically, you’re giving buccal swab, swabs on—of your own free will.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We do this as part, part of it. See, this ain’t so bad, huh?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, but I’ve never had this done, so…
Det. Kim Davis: I know.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Say ah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Ah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: There we go, and you get a free teeth cleaning with your first time.
Det. Kim Davis: You won’t go numb though.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right, and we’re going to have one more round.
Det. Kim Davis: I turned off my phone.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, I have a couple more questions. All right, this side.
Det. Kim Davis: Rock, what time is it on your watch? I turned my phone off so…
Det. Rocky Gregory: I’ve got, uh, 4:50, sorry, 4:47 is what I got. So, do you usually do traffic stops on the way home, or what, what was?
26:42
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. Like I said before, I, I really don’t. I usually try to get home because I’m tired after my shift.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, that, are you a big DUI worker?
Daniel Holtzclaw: When I first started coming on I did.
Det. Kim Davis: I hated DUIs.
Daniel Holtzclaw: But, not really at the end, no, to be honest with you.
Det. Kim Davis: I usually—if I see somebody swerving, I—whoop, the other way.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And it’s [laughing]—a lot of other officers do too. So…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, Daniel, this is, this is kind of one of the things that, uh, we kind of bring you in here to…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: …see how truthful you are.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now you need to kinda, kinda think of a few different things here.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. We pulled up a lot of video around that area…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: …after these allegations.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? She also haved a SANE exam, which you know that consists of.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: There’s a reason why we wanted your buccals.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. Now, I mean, we can go through a couple different things…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: …of why we’ve got you in here, but… you sure there’s nothing you wanna?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, if we go off the video and watch that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You’re still gonna stick with your story.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, sir.
Det. Kim Davis: If we go off DNA?
Daniel Holtzclaw: DNA, as well.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Should we show you the video?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If—yes!
Det. Rocky Gregory: You, you do wanna see it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Do I? Yes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, there’s nothing that you…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Everything that I recall of that night is what I—what was asked and everything. That’s what happened.
Det. Kim Davis: If I—have I maybe not asked enough questions?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think everything covered as far as that.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you recall putting your penis in her mouth?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Would you recall that if you did it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If I did it, yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. Well, I think you really, in all honesty, you need to really double think about this. I mean, I, I got to be honest with you. It doesn’t look really good.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? I mean, and what you originally thought, detectives just don’t roll up in there for no reason.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? And we just didn’t pick you up, out, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I mean, there’s a whole lineup there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh huh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? But there’s definitely enough here to bring you in here to start questioning you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? We knew you were on that stop.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We knew you were there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh huh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And we can watch a whole lot of actions being performed while you were there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh huh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? That’s why she was trying to give you every out on the whole boobie thing.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
29:15
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? Now, is there any reason, any reason at all, even from whatever angle, because, you know, it takes a little bit to clear up those videos.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But, any reason why your penis would be out?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Nothing?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. Now, in doing a—you know how SANE exams work and I ain’t got to explain about DNA or anything like that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now, I didn’t say you had sex with her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, but getting a blow job, okay? That is a different story.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? You see my concern here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m just listening to you, sir. I—that’s fine.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I know, but I’d rather listen to you and you start talking.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s all I have, sir.
Det. Kim Davis: Do, are we, are we going to get something from the SANE exam?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Go with the SANE exam.
Det. Kim Davis: Do, and do you understand that you don’t have to full blown ejaculate to get something out of the SANE exam?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: We can get skin cells. We can get pre-ejaculate. You can do all that and still get DNA.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And did your penis go in her mouth?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, it did not.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, because DNA will clear it up and here’s the deal too. I, it, we can fall on the sword.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: And say, ‘I screwed up’ or something, but if we say we didn’t do it, we didn’t do it, we didn’t do it, and then the DNA comes back and says he did it, then we have a huge problem.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: We’re here to give you the chance to fall on the sword so we don’t, we don’t want a huge problem. We don’t want a huge problem for you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s, this is time. It’s time. If you’re, if it touched her mouth, if it touched the inside of her mouth for one second, two seconds, three seconds, you gotta tell us now.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Look, there is, there’s a huge difference, there’s a huge difference in between a rape being forced…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh huh.
Det. Kim Davis: And con—
Det. Rocky Gregory: …and some old girl who wants it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? We’ve had plenty of that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: We, we get that and we know that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? But there, there is, [laughing] there is a big difference, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But I’m just saying, you know, these videos ain’t helping. And, I mean, we’re gonna do the comparing and all that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? But it’s not looking good so far.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? And I don’t want to see anybody go down for something that…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: …there was no force.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now, I’m not seeing any beating or anything like that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? I’m not seeing that big time, uh, big guy force her type thing like what we do see.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But…
Det. Kim Davis: But if it was a get out of jail free card, that happens.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And we know that happens.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And, but we gotta know that. We’ve got to know that versus, you know, he made me and I didn’t want to, blah, blah, blah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I—
Det. Kim Davis: If it’s a get out of jail free card then that’s a different story.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We’ve worked enough of them, okay—cases—that it didn’t happen. The problem is where we’re at right now.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? And that’s why we wanted to hear your version of the story.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Or do we just go off of what we see and, and, I mean, whatever this tests out as.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, but…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Sir, I’m, I’m sticking with my story. I’m, I’m…
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, okay. On the video, are we gonna see her boobies?
Daniel Holtzclaw: You shouldn’t see her boobs. I didn’t see her boobs.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Are we gonna see her pull her pants down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t see her pull her pants down.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Are we gonna see your penis out?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nope.
Det. Kim Davis: Are we gonna see your penis go in her mouth?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Are we gonna get any DNA to that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
33:23
Det. Rocky Gregory: Let’s switch up for a second. We had another girl, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You probably don’t, not necessarily gonna remember the name, but her name is Terry Morris. Okay? Black female. Um, supposedly, you promised her a ride to the City Rescue Mission. This ring a bell?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You did a—a—a traffic stop with her, uh, she thought you ran her for warrants. Clicking? You drove her around.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Unh uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: No?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That name doesn’t—I don’ recall a name like that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. She’s claiming the same thing. The exact same thing. And here again, for whatever reason, things are pointing at you again.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now this is before even this incident this morning. Traffic stop. Not logged in. All that stuff.
Daniel Holtzclaw: This morning?
Det. Rocky Gregory: No, no. This has been a little bit ago.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: This was here just a couple of weeks ago.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? Anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Do you remember, do you remember stopping?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t recall a name of Terri Morris.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, I wouldn’t remember a name.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Right. How about a black female, downtown, City Rescue Mission? That’s why I was trying to jog your memory.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I haven’t been to a City Rescue Mission.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I didn’t say you made it there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Have you promised anybody a ride to the City Rescue Mission?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I haven’t asked any—anyone ask me to the City Res, uh, City Rescue Mission.
Det. Kim Davis: Now, she didn’t have to ask you. Did you offer to take anybody to the City Rescue Mission?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t offer anyone, cause I don’t like going there to be honest with you. I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You don’t like dealing with what?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t like going over to the City Rescue Mission or anything like that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. How about any stops of a person just walking, even just downtown, anywhere downtown?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t, I don’t—in Springlake I don’t go downtown, besides if I go to Classen. I mean, not Classen, but Western and Main—the Valero’s—to fill up.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Or the jail.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Or jail. That’s right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Or headquarters, property room.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And you just, you just don’t remember doing any of those type of stops?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Not in the last month or so?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you run everybody that you come in contact with?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Majority of the time.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But you didn’t run old girl this morning?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The Fiftieth…
Det. Kim Davis: Fiftieth and Lincoln.
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t. I didn’t run her.
Det. Kim Davis: We—the other girl that he’s talking about is kind of making the same allegations, and that’s, that’s weird.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah, that’s…
Daniel Holtzclaw: It doesn’t look good. [laughing] I mean…
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, that’s weird.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, it doesn’t look…
Det. Kim Davis: That’s weird.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, it doesn’t look good. So, no, I don’t, no one with the City Rescue Mission, never been asked, never been offered anyone to go there. Uh…
Det. Kim Davis: Do you give people rides sometimes?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do give people rides.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do.
Det. Kim Davis: Because sometimes I’d be like, ‘I am not a taxi cab.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ll give them rides.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Have you always been in this, your new car? I mean, ever had it down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Driving another?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ve had a wreck on Twenty-Seventh and King where it was down for a little bit. Um, starting out I was in pool cards, but this is my take home car.
36:51
Det. Rocky Gregory: No, I’m saying in the last month have you been driving any of the older cars?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Um, no.
Det. Kim Davis: Black and white versus the solid black.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think this is the only car I’ve been in.
Det. Kim Davis: Have you ever driven a black and white car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I have, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: When? When was that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right out of the academy. A regular Crown Vic.
Det. Kim Davis: But when you, when you wrecked your car and it was down, what did you drive?
Daniel Holtzclaw: A Crown Vic, black and white.
Det. Kim Davis: A, a black and white one.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: When was that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: A year ago, maybe.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, how long have you had a take home car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mmm… Probably a year and a half.
Det. Kim Davis: And it’s been this one?
Daniel Holtzclaw: This one, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: So you wrecked it six months after having it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, somewhere around there, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: That sucks.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Was it your fault?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: Well, that’s good.
Det. Rocky Gregory: What do you think about all this?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t—heads out here. Uh, I want you to take the exam and get, get this over with. Uh, I feel embarrassed because of going to the station. Um, I feel…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, that’s why we try to handle it.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah, we do.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right, right, right. And I’ve heard of officers going through this and, and whatnot, and that’s something I don’t want my rep to be, you know, about. You know, I’m, I’m a good officer. I, I don’t, that’s not me. It’s not me.
Det. Kim Davis: Are you circumcised?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I am circumcised.
Det. Kim Davis: Just asking. Do you have pubic hair?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, I mean, some people manscape, as you call it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you groom?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I groom, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. So do I if that makes you feel any better.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Rocky Gregory: You got any identifying marks around your penis or…?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Just a plain old penis, huh?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just a plain old penis.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Plain old fourteen incher.
Det. Kim Davis: [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t say about that, but…
Det. Kim Davis: See, you should have. You just had your opportunity.
Det. Rocky Gregory: [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: I just don’t know what to, what to think. Would you take a polygraph?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, yeah. If you want me to take a polygraph.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, I just, I’m trying to think of a solution. Do you know how slow DNA is?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. I do not.
Det. Kim Davis: Slow. Uh, you’d be willing to take a polygraph on it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, we can call them and get that set up.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You, uh, this is kind of delving off different, but you married?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m not married.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Girlfriends?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, here and there.
Det. Kim Davis: Kids?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No kids.
Det. Kim Davis: You’re big. You on roids?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m not on steroids. [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: A little bit?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ve been always…
Det. Kim Davis: Which, I don’t care.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ve always been big.
Det. Kim Davis: I’m not the dope police.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’ve always been a big boned guy. Football. Athletic.
Det. Kim Davis: You, you’ve got more than big bones. You’ve got big muscles too.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I work out all the time.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do. I do.
Det. Kim Davis: Where do you work out?
Daniel Holtzclaw: At, uh, Four Star Gym off of May, about Sixty Third.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah. No roids at all?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No roids.
Det. Kim Davis: You do all the protein drinks and all that stuff?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I drink a lot of protein.
Det. Kim Davis: That can damage your kidneys, just so you know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] So…
Det. Kim Davis: If you did roids, would you tell us?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I would. I’d tell you.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, cause we don’t care.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I have nothing to hide about that. I’ve always been a big guy. I always work out all the time and whatnot.
40:28
Det. Rocky Gregory: When’s the last shower you had?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, took a shower before work.
Det. Rocky Gregory: When you went home, was anybody home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, my girlfriend was home?
[simultaneously] Det. Kim Davis: Do—do you live with her?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did you get laid?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Huh? No, she doesn’t. She just stayed.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did you get laid?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, messed around, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: What’s messed around?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh.
Det. Kim Davis: Sex?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I guess…
Det. Rocky Gregory: We’re all adults.
Daniel Holtzclaw: We almost had sex, and she was tired.
Det. Kim Davis: What’d you do?
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, my penis went around her vagina, and then, maybe went a little bit in, and then she pushed me off and said, ‘No. We don’t wanna… I’m tired.’ And I was, like, okay.
Det. Kim Davis: That’s kind of mean to let it get that far and then stop.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] So…
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, that’s when you got home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s when I got home.
Det. Rocky Gregory: How often do you have sex?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, about once a day, if that.
Det. Kim Davis: You guys have sex once a day?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: How old are you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Twenty-seven.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, well, yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: How much do you jerk off?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, maybe once a day.
Det. Kim Davis: So, you have sex once a day and masturbate once a day?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If I, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: What’d you do when you got shot down at home today?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh…
Det. Kim Davis: Usually you’ve got to relieve that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right, that’s... [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s was, that was before work. That happened before work.
Det. Kim Davis: You masturbated before work?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Not, did you just roll over and go to sleep when she didn’t give you any?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You ever been accused of anything like this before?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I haven’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Not in Michigan?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I have not.
Det. Kim Davis: You weren’t one of those football players?
Daniel Holtzclaw:, I wasn’t. I wasn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: That you see on the news?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was not.
Det. Kim Davis: Anything, anything you can think of that will help us help you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s it. I want…
Det. Rocky Gregory: I’m going to step out.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I want to go take the test. I want to clear my name.
[DET. ROCKY GREGORY EXITS ROOM]
Daniel Holtzclaw: I want to get it cleared up.
42:44
Det. Kim Davis: Because we, you know what, if this is a bunch of false allegations then I want it cleared up too.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And I’ll help you clear it up, and, and, uh, it’s, this, we don’t talk. It’s not sw—it’s swarming around Springlake.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s, it’s, it’s—
Det. Kim Davis: It’s out there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s just in the department too.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s not swarming all over the department. We, in Sex Crimes, we do not run around and go, ‘Guess what, this is what we’re working.’ I mean, w—we don’t do that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s not professional. I’m not going to lie to you. It’s around Springlake.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And everybody’s going to know that we pulled you down here. We tried to do it as discreetly as we could.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: But, and, like I said, there’s officers that—I’m not saying being with the hookers is right, but it happens.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And it’s life.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And if, if that’s what this was, lay it out there for me now.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. No, not it wasn’t. No.
Det. Kim Davis: It wasn’t, she wasn’t, did she offer anything? ‘Don’t take me to jail, don’t. I’ll do this, I’ll do this.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: She, no, she…
Det. Kim Davis: Did she offer you anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think she was nervous, like I said earlier, maybe a little flirtatious, but nothing crazy.
[DET. ROCKY GREGORY RE-ENTERS ROOM]
Det. Kim Davis: She never offered anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: In exchange for you not taking her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, she was really worried about going to jail, but, and, you know, she…
Det. Kim Davis: Well, sometimes they’ll say, ‘Hey, I’ll give you a hummer.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s it.
Det. Kim Davis: ‘If I don’t go to jail.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. no.
Det. Kim Davis: She didn’t offer that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Unh uh. She was nervous, like I said. She cried earlier.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she cry as soon as you stopped her or after she was in your car? When did she start crying?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think in the car, yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: What made you let her go? Number one reason.
Daniel Holtzclaw: To be, to be honest…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I wanted to get home. I wanted…
Det. Kim Davis: Then why’d you pull her over?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It [laughing] like I said earlier, I just, cop, swerve, DUI. And if I had, if I had, if I had…
Det. Kim Davis: Holy crap, that’s a two hour job.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I know, if I had to do it, I would have done it, but I didn’t think she was past the legal limit.
Det. Kim Davis: That’s just, I mean, I just would avoid that if I—did you at any time, you said you picked her up around Fiftieth and Lincoln?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, when you saw her swerve.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you at any time, were you always behind her or did you pull up beside her to maybe see who was in the car and then...
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. She…
Det. Kim Davis: …pull back behind her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She was at Fiftieth and Lincoln, swerved, and I was behind her. So I fell in behind her, and then waited until we passed the light.
Det. Kim Davis: Were you ever beside her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
45:17
Det. Kim Davis: What, what lane was she in?
Daniel Holtzclaw: In the outside lane, and I was in.
Det. Kim Davis: Closest to the curb?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, and I was inside.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you ever pull up beside her on this way and then fall behind her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I was…
Det. Kim Davis: Because sometimes…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was directly behind her about here and she swerved.
Det. Kim Davis: And you stayed behind her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I stayed behind her.
Det. Kim Davis: Because sometimes I would pull up beside to see, okay, how many people am I dealing with.
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: In the car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t do it that time. I’ve done that before.
Det. Kim Davis: Right. You didn’t do that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t do it this time.
Det. Kim Davis: Could you tell if she was the only passenger or?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I couldn’t. It was dark tinted windows. I couldn’t tell what’s inside of it.
Det. Kim Davis: So, you didn’t know how many people you were walking up on?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she roll down her window as soon as you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She had the back left window rolled down and then, uh, the f—I don’t think she ever rolled it up, and then I think she opened the door if I recall.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, and was it pretty quick that you took her to the back, to your car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: After a couple of questions. License and r—reg, you know, insurance, typical thing. She just handed me her little, uh, Oklahoma Identification Card, and I was, like, okay, investigative detention, ‘Come back to the car with me’.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Yeah, cause that gives you a reason to search if you need it, I mean. What would you have done if you’d found some dope or a gun or something?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, there’s, I mean, as officers if you find a little dime bag, it’s, you know, you can squash it out, you know, rub it out. With a gun, obviously, different story.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And you logged out when?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, I don’t know exact time, but off Prospect. Whenever I hit Prospect and probably about Fiftieth, I logged out.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you guys, cause it’s done different now, do you have to go to the station and check all your stuff in?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, hand in our…
Det. Kim Davis: At the end of the shift?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Hand in our activity?
Det. Kim Davis: Mm hmm.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And all that, whatnot.
Det. Kim Davis: You do that every night?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah. And then…
Det. Kim Davis: Not—sometimes you don’t go, to a buddy, ‘Here, turn this in, I’m going home’?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, the Lieutenants clear us and say, ‘You guys can go home’.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so you didn’t, and what, do they make you wait until straight up two or do they cut you…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Majority.
Det. Kim Davis: At ten til two or…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Majority of the time. Sometimes. It’s just up to the supervisor.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: The majority of the time.
Det. Kim Davis: And then you left?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right then, yeah, and then I headed up Fiftieth, going northbound.
Det. Kim Davis: How’d you get to Fiftieth? Just down Prospect?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Springlake Station take a right to go north off Prospect, take, uh, take a left and to go westbound on Fiftieth.
Det. Kim Davis: And then picked her up at Lincoln or whatever.
Daniel Holtzclaw: About there-ish. To the east when I saw her.
Det. Kim Davis: Any other traffic out there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, that was the only car.
Det. Kim Davis: What about during the time you had her stopped for, like, fifteen minutes?
Daniel Holtzclaw: What do you mean?
Det. Kim Davis: Was there a lot of traffic going by? Was there any traffic going by?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think there were cars I could see as far as coming, going west towards our direction and whatnot, but nothing like real crazy driving by us all the time.
Det. Rocky Gregory: [long pause] Step out.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah. Hang for a minute. Let us pow wow.
48:33
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: At this point both Detective Davis and Gregory step out of the room, leaving Holtzclaw sitting in silence for approximately six minutes and forty seconds before both returning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Det. Kim Davis: Your phone. I wanted to, they are looking in your car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Oh, okay.
Det. Kim Davis: But they wanted you to have your phone.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: All right, so we have no misunderstanding because maybe I didn’t key in on some things, I want you to, you turn in your activity card—walk me through it all again.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I turn in my activity card. I leave out of the station. Make a—take a right. Go northbound on Prospect all the way to Fiftieth. About that time, I turn off my computer. I’m done for the night. I head left to go westbound on Fiftieth.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: From Prospect. About a block down I see a red Grand Prix in the outside lane. I was on the inside lane. Directly in front of me the car swerved. At that time I kind of fall behind of it. I didn’t intentionally light it up until we hit about Fiftieth and, um, Lincoln. I didn’t want to light it up at, at the, at the stop sign, so I waited until we go forward and just lit it up just to the west and then that’s when I made the traffic stop.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, walk me through the stop.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Made the traffic stop. Made contact. ‘You have you license and insurance?’ The normal protocol.
Det. Kim Davis: Mm hmm.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She gave me her identification card and then at that time I said, ‘Do you have a valid driver’s license?’ She said, ‘No’ so, I was like, ‘Okay, that’s fine. Step out of the vehicle.’
Det. Kim Davis: Did she have insurance?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, she didn’t bring me the thing for insurance.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I just saw the ID and I was like, ‘Do you have valid insurance?’
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I mean, valid license. So, I brought her back to the house—house—the car, and then that’s when I…
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, what side of your car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The back, right.
Det. Kim Davis: The passenger’s side?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Go ahead.
50:34
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, as I’m walking her down, I’m like, ‘Do you have any weapons?’ or whatever. I always ask people when they step out of the car, whatnot. At that time, I patted her down, whatnot. Uh, I asked her to lift up her shirt, no, no weapons in there that I could see or anything like that. I put her in the back of my car. I asked her what the deal is. She’s going to Ann Arbor on the northwest side to visit her daughter, I believe. Uh, and then I’m like, ‘Okay, why were you swerving? Why are you late at two o’clock at night driving?’ And what not. ‘What’s the deal?’ Um, she’s like, ‘I’m just going to my daughter’s house.’ ‘Okay, so why were you swerving?’ She’s like, ‘I got nervous’ or something or whatever the deal is. So, I asked her, okay, I go, ‘Is there anything inside the car I need to know about?’ And then she said there was some juice in there. I was like, ‘Is there any alcohol in the juice?’ She says, ‘No’. So, I was like, ‘Anything else inside the car?’ She’s like, ‘Oh, you might just find some pills’ and whatnot. So, I asked, proceeded to ask, ‘Can I have consent to search your car?’ She says yes. I go to the car. I did a quick search, nothing out of, you know, I didn’t look up any carpets or anything like that, a quick search. I looked under the seat. Um, looked in her purse. I saw the pills, smelt the, the juice. I didn’t smell any alcohol in the juice. Then when I looked at the pills, a kind of quick glance to make sure it was her name, whatnot. Okay, we’re good. Went back over there and okay, what’s the deal with this? Blah, blah, blah, whatnot and she’s like, ‘I’m just trying to go see my daughter.’ And then I was like, ‘Okay, I don’t wanna g—I don’t wanna take you to jail. I’m tired. I want to go home.’ And then she’s like, ‘Okay.’ So, basically went from there and I said, ‘I’ll follow you, um, follow you around’. We got in our car. She took forever, so I pulled out, did a U-turn in front of her. She followed me where I could see her in the rearview mirror. We went over and I went northbound on Broadway Extension and she went Forty-Four West and that was it.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Did, uh, why’d you log off?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I always log off.
Det. Kim Davis: Aren’t you supposed to stay logged on until you get home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I always log off.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you keep your police radio on when you go home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so you’re listening?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think, I think, I think I had my radio on, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Do sometimes you turn them off?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I do.
Det. Kim Davis: That’s not good officer safety.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I...
Det. Kim Davis: What if you drive by an armed robbery?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s true too, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, or what if you drive by an officer that needs backup.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s right.
Det. Kim Davis: And you’re right there and you didn’t hear it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s right.
Det. Kim Davis: I’m giving you my, my mommy lecture.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: So you always log off when you’re done?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Majority of the time, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. When she, when you bring her to the passenger side of the car, here’s her car. I’m, I’m not a good artist either, and here’s your car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so you bring her over here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The back right.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Passenger’s side.
Det. Kim Davis: Is this where you’re having your conversation the whole time?
53:26
Daniel Holtzclaw: The whole time when I step out of the car I’ll always talk to them, ‘Well, do you got anything on you?’ So, as we’re walking here I’m like, ‘Okay, got anything on you?’ Okay, um, ‘Do you care if I just quick pat you down or whatever?’ She said, ‘Go ahead.’ I quick pat her down, don’t have any weapons I felt or anything like that. I go, ‘Lift up your shirt’ about right there. Nothing. Okay, keep walking, walking. I’m still checking her out making sure everything’s good. I’m like, ‘Anything in your shoes?’ ‘No.’ Try to take off her shoes. I’m like, ‘No, you’re good.’ So, we get inside the car and that’s when I proceeded to ask ‘Anything on board?’.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so she got inside the car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She got inside the car.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you go get in the car and talk or did you stand there with the door open and talk to her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think I did get inside the car for, like, a quick minute and just see what the deal is, just talking to her and whatnot. And that’s the time where I think I s—smelt the alcohol, just a little bit on her, but nothing f—I didn’t stay in the car forever and what not. I just talked to her for a quick, brief minute.
Det. Kim Davis: And then you went up and searched.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I got consent to search the car. I asked if anything’s on board and she said, ‘Juice.’ I was like, ‘Any alcohol in the juice?’ ‘No.’ ‘Anything else I should know about before I go inside the car, because I’m going to find it.’ She said, ‘Pills.’ Okay, I was like, ‘All right.’ I didn’t ask her specifically where the pills were.
Det. Kim Davis: Right.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, I go inside the car, looked under the front, left seat, quick searching, looking through the car is there anything? Like I said, I smelled the juice. I didn’t smell any alcohol. I went through her purse. Purse I saw bottles of pills and whatnot, but just a quick glance, okay, that’s her name, and w—went back.
Det. Kim Davis: Now, when you went back, did you get in your car or did you go back over here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, I can’t, I, I don’t know if I went into my car when I went back over there to be honest with you. I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you, sometimes, like I said, we open the car door and we stand. Car door’s open. And I’ll stand right here and talk to them cause they’re sitting right here.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. I’ve done that, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you do that with her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I did that. Yes.
Det. Kim Davis: So, you’re having conversation while she’s sitting in the car right there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, but you don’t remember if you got back in here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I know I, I believe I did get back in the car, that’s when I smelled just the slight of alcohol on her.
Det. Kim Davis: That was pre-search.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, I believe so. I believe so. I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: And I’m trying to get this so we can match it up with the video.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Uh, after you search you come back over here and talk to her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Any cars passing by then?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe a couple.
Det. Kim Davis: Could she have mis—because if you’re standing right here, and you’re a big guy.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And she’s sitting right here. If she goes like this—wah—she’s going to be looking right at your penis.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay. [laughing] It’s…
Det. Kim Davis: Could?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It was just talking.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you, let me ask you this, did you ever get a hard on while you were talking to her? Because she could have…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t, I don’t think I did. I…
Det. Kim Davis: These pants don’t fit the greatest and if, if you get a hard on, I’m going to be able to tell you’ve got a hard on.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. And I don’t, I’m pretty positive I didn’t get a hard on.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t get a hard on when…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m pretty positive.
Det. Kim Davis: You talked to her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Pretty positive.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, you, do you still just get boners because you get boners?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: You do?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. So, have you ever got a boner on a call?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m pretty sure I have.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Pretty sure I have.
Det. Kim Davis: But you, but it’s not something you would remember?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, I, I would remember if I got a hard on.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: While talking to somebody.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] It’s, as a guy, that’s…
Det. Kim Davis: That’s not something I know, I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, you’re not fifty yet either [laughing] so it happens because of your age. Uh, could she have misconstrued? Could you have got a hard on and she saw it and it…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think I got a hard…
Det. Kim Davis: …scared her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think I got a hard on, but like I said, she was already nervous and crying and whatnot. I already told her, I’m like, ‘Hey, I want to go home. I’m done with my shift. I don’t think you need to be worried about, if nothing’s on board where I need to take you to jail you’re good. I’m not worried about no state driver’s license.’
57:04
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Did you pants come unzipped, unbuttoned, anything, while you were standing right there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: CSI is processing your car right now.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And when we stepped out they found some pubic hairs right in here. Could they be yours?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. That’s not, I didn’t pull my penis out. I didn’t do anything right there.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Do you think they could be?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. It’s not. No. Nothing of mine.
Det. Kim Davis: Your pubes couldn’t be right there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: Has your penis ever been out…
Daniel Holtzclaw: While I’m…
Det. Kim Davis: …by your car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: While I’m working? No.
Det. Kim Davis: Not working?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Have you ever had sex in the backseat of your car?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I have not.
Det. Kim Davis: Because, I mean, some people do. I, I’m not saying forced sex. Consensual sex.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: So your penis has never been in your backseat?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Unh uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Is it possible any of this DNA is yours?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, it’s not. That’s I would like to, go, go at it. Not my DNA.
Det. Kim Davis: Are those pubes going to be yours?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: [long pause] Are you worried about it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m, this whole situation I’m worried about. I mean, I’ve never been here, never been questioned. Uh, especially in a, you know, like a room like this, you know? Honestly, I’m worried about the whole circumstances of the station and everything.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, you got to understand we kind of see different things, okay? You seemed a little extra worried whenever you talked about seeing her, we talked about seeing her boobies.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You sure she just didn’t flash you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I can’t, she did not flash, I, I don’t want to say I can’t recall, but I’m pretty positive she didn’t flash me her…
Det. Rocky Gregory: When I see a pair of titties, I’m going to remember.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She go—she went like this, but nothing as far as I’m going, like, crazy looking.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Lifting, lifting the shirt.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, no.
Det. Kim Davis: How far did she lift it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She, well, she lifted it up first when I patted her down. She was like right here to her, like, stomach line. That’s it.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you see her belly?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe some fat rolls or something. I don’t know, but nothing like I was…
Det. Kim Davis: But, I mean, could you see skin?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I saw skin. Yeah. Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, she’s older. Were her tits hanging down and you saw the bottom of her tits?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: It was dark. I don’t know.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You like older women?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
[simultaneously] Det. Kim Davis: How old is your girlfriend?
Det. Rocky Gregory: How old is your girlfriend?
All: [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, she’s twenty-five.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: What’s the oldest lady you’ve slept with?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, maybe twenty-nine.
59:52
Det. Rocky Gregory: You ever slept with a black woman?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I have. In high school I have.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Pre—do you have a race that you prefer?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. No.
Det. Kim Davis: You just like…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m half Japanese, so I’m not really…
Det. Kim Davis: I was going to ask you if you were Asian.
Daniel Holtzclaw: …racial about anything. So, I’m not really, discriminate against.
Det. Kim Davis: Who’s Japanese, your mom or your dad?
Daniel Holtzclaw: My mom.
Det. Kim Davis: Is your dad huge?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: How’d you get so big?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s what everyone asks me, and that’s what I thought.
Det. Kim Davis: Because, I mean, Asian genes are kind of small.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s why I thought I was adopted at first when I talked to them, but, uh, my dad’s small – five nine. Japanese people are small in general, so…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: Wow. How tall are you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: About six two.
Det. Kim Davis: Wow. He got big—does daddy have some big guys on his side?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The thing about it, he’s a family of four, three, well, he’ll be, with him four brothers, but I think his generation, his uncle was pretty tall and I think that’s where I got it.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I think we’ve covered a lot of the sex questions.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah, is there anything? You got any sex questions?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. No. [laughing]
Det. Rocky Gregory: You got anything of us?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. I don’t. No. I just [laughing] this whole, this whole situation and, I just…
Det. Kim Davis: It’s kind of scary. I get it. I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It is scary, and I don’t li—I don’t want my rep to be, everything’s about, in law enforcement. I don’t—three years on. I know that, that everything’s about your reputation.
Det. Kim Davis: Absolutely.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I don’t want this to follow my rep.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I understand.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So.
1:01:30
Det. Kim Davis: Why would she make, because whens, when a, when a woman says some—something like this and they go through a SANE exam and they go, you didn’t give her a ticket, so she’s not getting out of a ticket. You didn’t arrest her, because we get those when they go to jail, ‘I’ve been raped’. And have to work those stupid things.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Because they think they’re going to get out of jail.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Why in the world would she make this up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t know. I was, she was cooperative. She was nervous, like I said earlier, crying. I told her not, I’m not worried about no state driver’s license. I wasn’t making…
Det. Kim Davis: She said she was crying.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, and I, I don’t, you know, at times as an officer, you might make a threat to be like, ‘Oh, I’m going to take you to jail’. Um, but to try to get some way to get in the car or something [inaudible].
Det. Kim Davis: Right.
Daniel Holtzclaw: But that wasn’t the case. I wasn’t threatening her. I wasn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she ever ask you if you were going to shoot her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She did. She was talking about a pistol all the time and talking about guns and whatnot and I’m like, ‘Calm down. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna shoot you or anything like that.’
Det. Kim Davis: Did she think you were going to shoot her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe. But, I’m like, ‘What?!’ And I even asked her, I think I asked her, ‘What’s the deal with you and cops? You have a bad run-in with a cop?’ That was it.
Det. Kim Davis: So, did, you had to tell her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I said, ‘Calm down.’
Det. Kim Davis: Calm down. Did you ever say, ‘I promise I’ll let you go.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did. I said, ‘I promise I’ll let you go. I’m not worried about no state driver’s license. Is there anything inside that car?’
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did you tell her you were going to follow her home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did. I did, but then when she took forever to turn around I got annoyed and I was like screw it and go. But I saw her in the rearview mirror and I saw her take Forty-Four when I went northbound on Broadway.
Det. Kim Davis: Where did she live?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She said she was going to sister’s house in Ann Arbor and she was going…
Det. Kim Davis: Were you really going to follow her? That’s far.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was gonna drift off. You know, I might not really follow her, but I’ll just kind of drift off and, okay, she’s good to go. So, I didn’t think at first she was drunk. She wasn’t over the s—the legal limit. But I might have thought alcohol was on board, but nothing where she’s DUI.
Det. Kim Davis: Any way those pubes are going to be yours?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, they’re not. Please, go.
Det. Kim Davis: I, I know. I know. We’re going to test it. It just takes…
Daniel Holtzclaw: They’re not.
Det. Kim Davis: Any way your skin cells are going to be anywhere on her mouth?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Skin cells from your fingers?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you touch her body anywhere, other than with the back of your hand pat searching her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I just pat searched her and that was about it. I didn’t touch her face or anything. Not…
Det. Rocky Gregory: You got to understand, we’ve had so many people sat in that same chair.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: That tell us all day long, ‘I didn’t do this. I didn’t do this.’ They promise on their baby, on their momma.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: They promise to God.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, they do.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And then they come right back. We get back these tests and you can’t get out of it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You know? I mean, once you kind of get, basically, kind of locked into something, there’s no talking about it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And that’s why we try to give a person every opportunity.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: To see if…
Det. Kim Davis: Cause if the tests come back, you ain’t coming back in here.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Because we’re, here we have a woman that says about, you know, basically being sexually assaulted.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, and we’re calling it by force and all that. Big difference between that and a hook up.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And if they come back, if, if there’s something there and you say no and she said it was that, you know, you, you see where we’re going?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. I do.
Det. Rocky Gregory: That’s why we always try to give every angle.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We wasn’t there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, we just got to go off of everything that we see and, and have.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I understand.
Det. Kim Davis: No hook up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No hook up.
Det. Kim Davis: Not even a little hook up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, not a little hook up.
Det. Kim Davis: No boobie?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No boobie. I saw no breasts.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she see your penis?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: I’m just trying to think of anything that she could have misconstrued or why, why’d she go to all this trouble.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t know.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you do anything that pissed her off?
1:05:45
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s what I’m saying, I don’t think I did anything when I was talking to her. I wasn’t rude. She was cooperative. I wasn’t at a point where I’d be like, ‘Okay, you’re going to jail’ or something, or whatnot. I don’t think I made any, like, threats to make, you know, to get her in the car, like I said, or anything like that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: When we first walked into the office, first time you saw us, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And we just kind of started talking, y—you brought up this traffic stop.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Because the Major came in, or the Captain, talking about Fiftieth and Lincoln.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And, okay.
Det. Kim Davis: When, when he came and got you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, it was something.
Det. Kim Davis: What’d he say to you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think it was the Captain, and, uh, we were in the Major’s office and he said something, accusations of Fiftieth and Lincoln.
Det. Rocky Gregory: No, we…
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I didn’t hear any rumors going into the station or anything. I was just going to show up in lineup like I normally do.
Det. Kim Davis: When you, when you came in you said something about, ‘Whoa, why are all them guys here?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think I said—I was shocked. I, I was like…
Det. Kim Davis: You said that in the car. Not to, you were like, ‘When I saw everybody I was like, Whoa, I wonder…’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Because I was.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you think we were there for you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I was just wonder, I saw that and I knew from academy, I was like, what, what’s going on?
Det. Kim Davis: Did you think it was for you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t know. I didn’t see, I’ve never been in trouble like this before. I’ve never got accused of anything like this or nothing.
Det. Kim Davis: But it scared you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I was scared.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, if I walked into the station and saw some Sex Crimes detective there, that wouldn’t scare me.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It wouldn’t scare me if I was just in the briefing station, but it, since I went in the room, was told to go in the room and I saw you’re Sex Crimes.
Det. Kim Davis: Then you… okay. Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s when I…
Det. Kim Davis: But I, I saw you when you walked in the door. Did you see me in the Captain’s office?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I saw you, but I saw Captain glance over like that.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you get scared then?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. The Captain, I, I’m good with Captain Clifton.
Det. Kim Davis: Are you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: And we use to say hey what’s up all the time so it wasn’t a big deal to me like that, but when he told me to come into the room.
Det. Kim Davis: But when you got called in the…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: …then you were like, whoa.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, what’s going on?
Det. Kim Davis: What’s your phone number?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [redacted]
Det. Kim Davis: Did you exchange phone numbers with this lady?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did not.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she have a phone?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do not know.
Det. Kim Davis: Did you talk about hooking up later?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I did not.
Det. Kim Davis: Is she somebody you’d hook up with?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she want to hook up later?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t know. I, she didn’t give me any clues like that. She was…
Det. Kim Davis: Did she ask for your number?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: I’m just trying to think of every conceivable, possible thing for this.
1:08:47
Det. Rocky Gregory: Run down through on your search of her breasts again. E—exactly how that went. Because even, that and her pants.
Det. Kim Davis: Was she standing?
Det. Rocky Gregory: One more time.
Det. Kim Davis: Or sitting?
Daniel Holtzclaw: When?
Det. Kim Davis: During that time.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I patted when I got to the vehicle, about right here. Um, said, ‘Can I search you?’ and whatnot.
Det. Kim Davis: At, more by the front door?
Daniel Holtzclaw: The front, right fender. And then I patted her down, boom, boom, boom. ‘Lift up your shirt’ right here, boom, no weapons, whatnot.
Det. Kim Davis: So you said, ‘Lift up her shirt’?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: ‘Your shirt.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: What if that would, if she would have gone wah?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Then I would have been, I would have told a supervisor or something. I’d be like, to get that off my back, you know. I, that’s not what I meant.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Right. You, you searched her with her, where was her, was she facing you or facing away?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Facing away.
Det. Rocky Gregory: She was facing away.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And how are you seeing if anything’s falling if she’s facing away?
Daniel Holtzclaw: If it’d fall I would see right there.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You’d see right there, but don’t you usually have them turn face toward you and sh—do a shake out?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Well, officer safety. I always have everyone face away from me. You can’t see what you can’t hit.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But you don’t know if a weapon’s there or anything.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I, as far as I, quick pat search, ‘Lift up your shirt’, no weapons on board.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now, you made a mention earlier about her pants. Uh, she did what with her pants?
Daniel Holtzclaw: As far as that, it was just in the s—in the backseat. Nothing. She had tight pants and that’s about it.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But how did, did you have her do, like, a cursory movement around her, her beltline? Anything like that or any shake?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did you tell her how to, how far to raise her shirt or to do the, the shake with the bra? Anything like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think she did the shake with her bra by herself. I didn’t say to do any of that, as far as the lift up. The…
Det. Kim Davis: Did she pull it out and go like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes. But as far as, that’s on her. As far as right here is when I told her to lift up the waistband.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But she was faced away from you the entire time that her, her chest was…
[PHONE RINGS]
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: She was checking?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right. Right.
Det. Kim Davis: So, when she lifted up her shirt, her back was to you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, I think she was facing me, h—honestly, because I want to look at the front end.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You said you might have saw her, her belly, like a fat roll.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So you would have been to the side or to the front.
Daniel Holtzclaw: If, the time when she faced me is probably when I would have saw f—a fat roll or skin.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But, it wasn’t for the, the check?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she try to pull her pants down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, not that I recall. Uh, moved around in the seat and that’s about it. Nothing as far…
Det. Kim Davis: But when she was standing, did she try to pull her pants down?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she do, you said she kind of did like this.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She did this.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she ever do anything down here?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, because at that time when she asked me, ‘Do you want, you want me to show you?’ and I’m like, ‘No, no, I’m good.’
Det. Kim Davis: She did ask if?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: What’d you say?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I said, ‘No, I’m good.’
Det. Kim Davis: When was that? Where was everybody then?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think that was in the car.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, I don’t think you said that last time.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I think I did, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Maybe you did and maybe I just missed it. So, she was in the car and said, ‘Do you want me to show you?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Once she did the, the shake thing and she’s like, ‘Do you want me to show you?’ and I was like, ‘No.’
Det. Rocky Gregory: Show you what?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just as, I guess she was trying to mean as far as just to boom or something, if anything’s in her bra or anything like that.
01:10:54
Det. Kim Davis: But that was after you already had her lift up her shirt a little bit?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right, because I was at the front, right fender.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. Okay, and, like I said, I may have missed that or got confused or—we’ve talked a lot. So, she asked you, when she’s sitting in your car, ‘Do you want me to show you?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: And you said no.
Daniel Holtzclaw: To, no.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she attempt it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. And that was after the, whatever she was doing.
Det. Kim Davis: After she was kind of doing like this?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: A thing that kind of concerns me is everything you’re telling me is dead on to what she says. Everything. Except the sexual stuff.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing was done as far as that. Nothing.
[VIBRATING NOISE]
Det. Rocky Gregory: [long pause] Did she smell of anything else besides alcohol?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just a little bit, like I said, when I was in the car seat. But I asked her if anything else was on board and she just said pills.
Det. Kim Davis: Did she smell, though, like weed, or?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Not, not PCP or anything with a stink that I would smell.
Det. Kim Davis: Right.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t smell any weed inside the car. I didn’t smell any weed on her person. Um, that’s about it.
01:12:36
Det. Rocky Gregory: [long pause] Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Got any questions?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] I just…
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, we’ll talk—
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m just bombarded with questions and…
Det. Kim Davis: I know. Do you have any? Do you want to bombard us with any questions?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. [laughing] It’s, no, I don’t. I don’t have any questions. I just…
Det. Rocky Gregory: We might, uh, as far as the, you said you’d take the lie detector test.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you have any extra job? Is there a time when you can’t take a lie detector test?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Then you can take it at any time?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I can take it at any time.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, you’re not scheduled for vacation coming up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m not scheduled for vacation.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, what, where are you at on your days on right now?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, this will be my second day on, Wednesday.
Det. Kim Davis: So, you’re Tuesday to Tuesday?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m Tuesday to Tuesday.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You take any testosterone booster?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do take a pro-hormone, which is over the counter. Uh, BYN, Beyond Your Nutrition, which is off Memorial and Penn-ish.
Det. Kim Davis: What’s that do to your nuts? You know how they say?
Daniel Holtzclaw: They say, they say it shrinks your nuts.
Det. Kim Davis: Does it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: They say it shrinks your nuts.
Det. Kim Davis: Are your nuts shrunk?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think they are. [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, well, you would notice. You know your ball size.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t, I don’t think they have shrunk.
Det. Kim Davis: Has it done anything to your penis?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nope.
Det. Kim Davis: You have any problem getting it up?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: You have any problem ejaculating?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But it’s called BYN?
Daniel Holtzclaw: BYN, Beyond Your Nutrition.
Det. Kim Davis: Is that the name of the store or what you take?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s off—the store.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: What’s the stuff you take?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s, uh, called Methodrol.
Det. Kim Davis: Does it make you hornier when you’re on that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Supposedly. Science says that it’s supposed to increase your testosterone levels.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you feel?
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, which, which in case, I guess, makes you more…
Det. Kim Davis: What—how long you been taking that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, on and off for maybe a year.
Det. Kim Davis: So, do you think, think you want it more since you’ve been on that? I mean, if you’re doing it once a day, that’s a lot, I think.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Plus jacking off.
Det. Kim Davis: Plus jacking off.
Daniel Holtzclaw: For my age, I don’t think that’s a lot.
Det. Kim Davis: Was it that before you took this stuff?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah. I think I have a, I think that’s probably why I’m a bigger guy is because I have higher testosterone. An athlete and...
Det. Kim Davis: And do you think you have a high sex drive?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you like oral sex, normal?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I like it all.
Det. Kim Davis: You’ll take it if you’ll... mm hmm. Do you prefer vaginal? Would you rather a blow job or do it in the hoo haw?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Do it, me take it in the...?
Det. Kim Davis: No, you give it in the hoo haw or get a blow job.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, sex.
Det. Kim Davis: Sex? What about anal sex?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t like any of that.
Det. Kim Davis: You don’t? Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: [long pause] Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, let’s step out.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I had some questions about some midgets, but I guess I’ll leave that alone.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Kim Davis: Have you ever had sex with a dude?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I have never had sex with a man.
Det. Kim Davis: Have you ever wanted to?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do not. I do not want to mess with a guy.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right.
01:15:50
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Host: Both detectives step out of the room again. This marks the third time Holtzclaw has been left sitting alone in the Interrogation Room. Holtzclaw is also being observed this entire time by Lieutenant Muzny who is in another room. Detectives Davis and Gregory return after about nine minutes.
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Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. Thanks.
Det. Kim Davis: We pow-wow and then we keep you.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right, that gal I was talking about, that Terri Morris, the one I, the other, the other person, okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: The one who’s saying the same thing, okay? Like I say, it was downtown. She was walking, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, when I say a stop, that’s, you know, you see.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Like a voluntary contact thing.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, here, think of a cross between, this is one picture and this is her. Does she look familiar?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: No?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Unh uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now, you stopped her for sure, and ran her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: On a different day. It was May 8th.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, you sure she doesn’t look familiar at all? Now, when you stopped her, you know, over at the Liberty Apartment area?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, that’s where you stopped her on May 8th.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, now does that ring a bell at all?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, it doesn’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. All right. Now, you ran her then, okay? Now, she says that, uh, you stopped her later on, like I say, later on in the month. It was more kind of a downtown area. Does that ring a bell at all?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t recall any of those pictures. I don’t recall any of that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t ever go downtown besides if I go to the gas station or County or Headquarters.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Off-duty jobs, where, where do you work off-duty?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. I don’t have an off-duty. All I have is courtesy officer at my apartment.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, so, besides Varu—uh, Valero and, and County.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe Viper here and there, maybe.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s within our…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Were you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: On duty.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But you’re running Viper out of Springlake?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Out of Springlake.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. All right, uh, you ever, with your car you ever go visit anybody? Any buddies or anything like that or?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Shopping? Anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, what, why would, and granted you’re not even recalling her on the May 8th.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, uh, but that’s, I just wanted you to have a frame of mind of who’s, who’s making this, uh, these statements against you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And it’s the exact same thing too. You know? Uh, you stop her, have her sit in the backseat, run her for warrants, then you have her, get her out.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, unzip the pants. I mean, on and on and on, we can go through.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, it’s…
Det. Rocky Gregory: It’s to a t of this one.
Det. Kim Davis: It’s exactly the same.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, I don’t recall any of those people. I don’t think I recognize those people.
Det. Kim Davis: What if you could recall?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, it’s the same one. This is the same one. I’m just showing you a picture of…
Det. Kim Davis: Of how she’s changed.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah, this is change, okay.
Det. Kim Davis: That’s the same girl.
Det. Rocky Gregory: It’s two different time periods, but she looks kind of in between. It’s the same girl.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
01:18:48
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay? Still nothing? Even vaguely? She’s always on the Northeast side, you know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uhn uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Twenty-Third and, and Kelley. Thirty-Sixth? Kelley?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right. But she’s, I mean, she’s described you to a t.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, and, like I say, I mean, it’s everything, everything, you know? You don’t remember her? Even, even forget what she’s saying. You don’t remember having, offering a, a ride to the, to the shelter?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I run in contact with a lot of people, especially at Liberty Station. That’s where I patrol. That’s my area as Charlie Three, like my sector. I go there all the time.
Det. Kim Davis: Where is that? Just because I don’t know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Twenty-Sixth and Lindsey area.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, I, I don’t bring anyone to the shelter. I don’t, if I was asked, I would be like, ‘Find another way.’ I don’t. I haven’t brought anyone to the shelter.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah, but you, it’s a good way to get somebody in the car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It is.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Do you remember having contact with a female like that age, okay, uh, that, you know, said she was going from the shelter from a rehab center? Uh, even saying, you know, you would take her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Driving her around. Anything like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. Do you ever, every time you have a female in the back do you go ten fourteen or you just kind on zip over?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t. Usually it’s—all the times if I do, you’re supposed to say—policy—you’re supposed to let dispatch know.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, who cares about policy right now? Because we don’t.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: At this point. Do you do the mileage and do all that or?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I can’t—here and there.
Det. Kim Davis: Sometimes you don’t.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Sometimes I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Sometimes I don’t.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Zip on back to this other deal. You’re saying about a fifteen minute traffic stop. How long do you usually take on traffic stop, just on average?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [sigh] Maybe twenty minutes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now that’s a…
Det. Kim Davis: That’s a long time.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe. Maybe.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Now, twenty minutes, and I’ll give it to you, just even doing the gang stuff and all that, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Twenty minutes, now that’s going to be some eight hundred time, right?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Eight hundred, searching the car in detail, all that.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, so doing all of that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All the running, waiting in line, and even on a search, now, the, the question I have is we got a lapse of time here. So, I’m kind of, get a better handle on where the time went. You’re talking about fifteen minutes.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: No eight hundred. No running on the computer. You shut it down.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And even you said it was just a quick little search of the car.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It was.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Where’s the rest of that time?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just talking to her.
Det. Kim Davis: About what? I mean, she’s…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just see where you’re going at—trying to—actually to try and get her to confess are you drunk or not. Like, have you been drinking, because I could smell it when I was in the car but I couldn’t really get—
Det. Kim Davis: Well, what if she would have said, ‘Yes, I’m drunk.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I probably would have took her down.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did you do any?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t do any.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Tests?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t do any sobriety tests, just from inside the car smelling it and that’s about it.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But even that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Emotional maybe.
Det. Rocky Gregory: But even that, that would be just within a, a minute or two. I mean, I use to be DRE so I know how long those questions will last.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: So, then you switch on over. But nothing?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, well, I didn’t hear a lot of drunk questions. You know, like, uh, ‘How much did you…’
Daniel Holtzclaw: ‘Have you been drinking?’ Uh, mainly it’s just, ‘Have you been drinking?’ Try to get her to confess. ‘Is there anything inside that juice?’ ‘No.’ Uh, ‘Why are you driving so late at two o’clock’ and ‘Where are you going?’ ‘Going to Arbor on the west side.’ ‘Where are you, who are you going to see?’ Just trying to just talk to her, but…
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, right there, those questions maybe took forty seconds, fifteen minutes?
Det. Rocky Gregory: And you said five at the car. So, then we’ve got ten of a lot of questions.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, I mean you, you tell me. I wasn’t there.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I mean.
Det. Rocky Gregory: And obviously, I don’t have any audio.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I’m, and I’m, and that’s what I’m saying. Roughly on a traffic stop, I take about twenty minutes. It was the quickest traffic stop, about fifteen minutes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: That’s your quickest traffic stop?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, not my…
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, you’re a slow poke.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m not. [laughing] I don’t, I don’t really get ten-ninetied at all or anything like that, but I, I take my time sometimes.
Det. Kim Davis: But you didn’t write her tickets.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t write her a ticket.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t run her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t run her.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t even put yourself out.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I didn’t put myself out.
Det. Kim Davis: How could you take fifteen minutes on that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just talking. I, I must have been talking, so that’s it.
Det. Kim Davis: I don’t, I can’t see her wanting to talk if she’s crying and asking if you were going to shoot her and all this. I don’t see her being real forthcoming with conversation.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Whether my questions or whatnot, that’s it. I…
Det. Rocky Gregory: I mean, you don’t seem—I mean, I don’t know how you were out there, but just kind of talking with you, I mean, you seem real laid back and everything like that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I, I don’t, I’ve never got the impression of just kind of an angry type cop. We know some.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: You know, that, uh, yeah, you might would ask, but I, I don’t see that question coming up of, of you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I mean, you’re not saying she was drunk or high or…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I mean, I didn’t think she was drunk over the legal limit of .08, and like I said, I, I didn’t make any threats to her. She, she was just emotional because maybe the gun deal or she saw a cop and she’s…
Det. Kim Davis: What gun deal?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She said, ‘You got a gun?’ So, I was like, ‘Calm down.’
Det. Kim Davis: Well, duh, everybody has a gun.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, and so I guess she brought that up and I was like, ‘Calm down.’
Det. Rocky Gregory: When she asked about that, ‘You got a gun?’ at what point did she ask that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, she asked that right when we were searching. The pat search. And when we were in the back of the car.
Det. Kim Davis: So, she brought it up twice?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Twice?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Twice.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Did she just say, ‘You got a gun?’ or what?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, and then starts crying and I’m like, ‘Don’t get emotional, it’s okay.’
Det. Kim Davis: Did she ever say, ‘You shouldn’t do this’?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: Or, ‘I can’t do this’?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
01:24:57
Det. Kim Davis: She just says, ‘You got a gun’?
Daniel Holtzclaw: ‘You got a gun.’
Det. Kim Davis: ‘Are you going to shoot me?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: No. No, I, I, no, no, I don’t think she ever said that.
Det. Kim Davis: No, you said, you said last time, you…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Did I? Okay, well.
Det. Kim Davis: I said, ‘Did sh—did she a—did she say?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Well, maybe she said that, but then I was like, ‘Did you have any bad runs in with the cops?’ and she’s like, ‘No.’
Det. Kim Davis: That just doesn’t fit. That’s just weird.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And, that’s what I, I mean. [laughing] That’s, I’m kind of in there too. I don’t know if, I didn’t think she was drunk, but I know there was pills on board. I don’t know if, I don’t know, so, it wasn’t to the point.
Det. Kim Davis: Uh, what—do, do you carry, a Glock?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t…
Det. Kim Davis: Oh, you don’t have it on you. I didn’t pay attention. City, the one you got in academy?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: What else you taking besides that pro-hormone?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s about it. Creatine, uh…
Det. Rocky Gregory: What in the creatine?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just creatine. Monohydrates, uh, I don’t know exact ingredients in it, uh…
Det. Rocky Gregory: But, I’m saying, is it, is it in something? I mean, is it like an intro-workout, a pre-workout? Are you taking…?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, pre-workouts are in creatine.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, give me the names of what you’re using.
Daniel Holtzclaw: There’s a lot of supplements I take.
Det. Kim Davis: How much money you spend on supplements?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s… costs a lot. Supplements costs a lot.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Start rattling them.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] Uh, C4 pre-workout, uh, No Explode, uh, let’s see, uh, Dimatize has some, uh, Condense.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Dimatize has what? You mean, for your protein?
Daniel Holtzclaw: They, I take their protein. Uh…
Det. Rocky Gregory: You taking any injection?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Not at all. Just pro-hormones.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, you got anything to offset the pro-hormone stuff?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, liver, liver pills, because I guess it’s bad to take oral, so I take liver pills and that’s about it. Multivitamins, men’s sports multivitamins. And that’s about it.
01:27:16
Det. Kim Davis: All this stuff, does it make you, do you ever get mad?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t. And…
Det. Kim Davis: Aggressive?
Daniel Holtzclaw: That all is, uh, a myth.
Det. Kim Davis: Is it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s a myth. That’s just based on the guy’s personality, I guess. And whatnot.
Det. Rocky Gregory: [long pause] Have you ever roided?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Have I did steroids? No. I’ve been around it in college. NFL. I’ve seen guys do it. College I’ve seen guys do it.
Det. Kim Davis: You didn’t do it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Never did it.
Det. Kim Davis: How come?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I started as a true freshman in college, so I got random tested by NCA. NCA tests us for all that, uh, as far as steroid use. I mean, you get tested in college just for street drugs. So, I didn’t know when randomly they could do it. I didn’t want to put—
Det. Kim Davis: Why weren’t the other guys worried about it? What happened if they got caught on it?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t think they… They didn’t care. I, I cared. I didn’t want to—I started as a true freshman. I didn’t want to do that. I didn’t. It wasn’t about me. I was a big-boned kid. I didn’t need to get stronger. I didn’t feel like—everything had come natural. I didn’t feel like I needed to get faster or anything like that.
Det. Kim Davis: What happened if you got caught doing it in a random test?
Daniel Holtzclaw: NCA would suspend you. You’d be done.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, like anything, just, I mean, there’s always something before they ban it and stuff.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: The old android days and stuff.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, so…
Det. Kim Davis: Did you do the supplements and all that then?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, but I had a, back then you had to be a little careful as far as talk to your team doctor, what’s in this? Is this FDA approved? Just don’t have that risk of accidentally, you know, getting tested for a small ingredient or whatnot.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, so you don’t think fifteen minutes was too long on that traffic stop?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I…
Det. Kim Davis: And nothing sexual went on?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing.
Det. Kim Davis: During that fifteen minutes?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Nothing sexual.
Det. Kim Davis: When you said you were going to follow her but she took too long, how long is too long?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Where you turn off the lights—okay, go ahead, wait just a little bit, wait a little bit, okay, so I hooked a U-turn and went.
Det. Kim Davis: Thirty seconds? Forty-five seconds? A minute?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe a little bit longer than a minute.
Det. Kim Davis: What do, what was she doing? Could you see in the window?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I couldn’t. I just saw her just pull up a little bit, kind of stall and slow creep up, and I’m like what are you doing? Go and I’ll follow you. And then I just, boom, hooked a U-turn and went north on north, uh, Two Thirty-Five, Broadway Extension.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. We’re going to call tomorrow. We can’t get a hold of a polygrapher today.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: And, uh, get that scheduled.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: And I’ll call you on your cell phone and tell you when it is.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you know where that, it’s at the training center. Did—
Daniel Holtzclaw: Where we did academy, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay. But I’ll call you and get, we got to get that all set up.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: And then I’ll call you and get you scheduled. Pow-wow one more time?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Sure.
Det. Kim Davis: Any questions?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t have any questions.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Can Daniel come?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Rocky Gregory: Maybe he can [inaudible] after this?
01:30:45
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Host: Detectives Kim David and Rocky Gregory leave the room again. This would be their fourth time to leave the room, and after about five minutes and forty seconds, uh, Detective Rocky Gregory returns briefly to the room by himself.
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Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s a little toasty in here.
Det. Rocky Gregory: It is a little toasty. We’ll leave this open. Your pants. These the pants you wore last, last shift?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, yes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: It is?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. [pause] What about your underwear?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Where they at?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, the wash.
Det. Rocky Gregory: They’re in the washer?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Washer.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Washer.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay. All right. Well, I need your pants.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah, I didn’t figure you’d have a problem. [laughing]
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Rocky Gregory: Uh, okay, we’re trying to figure out a way to speed this on along. I know it’s been, uh, I don’t know. What, what would you, we’re trying to figure out whether just to, figure out, whether you put pants on…
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s, it’s you guys. Whatever you guys want to do. You guys’ call.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I don’t know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s you guys’ call.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Because I’ll dr—if you want me to drop ‘em, I’ll drop ‘em.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, okay. You don’t mind wearing, like, some Tyvex pants or something home? Does that matter?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t, I don’t care. Whatever.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Whatever.
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right.
01:32:28
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: Detective Gregory once again steps out of the Interrogation Room. He and Detective Davis return after just a little over two minutes.
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Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay, who, who all was home when you got home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, my girlfriend, Carrie [redacted].
Det. Rocky Gregory: You live with anybody else?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Is she a policeman?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, she’s not.
Det. Kim Davis: Oh.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Carrie [redacted]?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Carrie [redacted].
Det. Rocky Gregory: What’s her number?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, can I go through my phone?
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [Sigh] As much as I don’t want to get her involved...
Det. Kim Davis: We’re not going to tell her what’s going on, but we are going to—
Det. Rocky Gregory: You tell her whatever you want to.
Det. Kim Davis: Yeah, we’re not going to…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, her number is going to be [redacted].
Det. Kim Davis: Does she work? Are we going to, if we call?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She does work.
Det. Kim Davis: Is she at work now?
Daniel Holtzclaw: She works, uh, normal eight to give hours, Monday through Friday.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, where does she work?
Daniel Holtzclaw: At, uh, [redacted]. Memorial and MacArthur area, around there.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We’re getting the, that Tyvex thing going.
Det. Kim Davis: Don’t call her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m not [laughing].
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: For now the sixth time, Holtzclaw is left alone in the Interrogation Room. Both detectives return after about four and a half minutes.
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Det. Kim Davis: You created some more work.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Sorry [laughing].
Det. Kim Davis: We were fixing to go. I just talked to Carrie.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: She said she was asleep when you got home and you did not try to have sex, and you did not have sex.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did try to have sex with her.
Det. Kim Davis: She says you didn’t. And I asked her, ‘Could you have been asleep and, you know, kinda… blaaaah, no?’ And she said, ‘No.’ She—you did not try to have sex.
Daniel Holtzclaw: As much as I don’t want to involve her, I tried to have sex with her and she was asleep. Carrie goes to sleep pretty early. About nine, ten, at the lat—at the latest.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, but [stuttering noises] she would know if you tried. I’m a woman.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I know. And [laughing].
Det. Kim Davis: If my husband comes home in the middle of the night and I’m like, ‘Are you kidding me?! I’ve been asleep.’ You said you trolled around her vagina.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did.
Det. Kim Davis: And you put it in a little bit. And then she said, ‘I’m tired, no.’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I did.
Det. Kim Davis: She would remember that to tell me.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She—maybe, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: She said you did not try to have sex.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] It’s more personal cause it’s Carrie, but I did try to have sex with Carrie. I did.
Det. Kim Davis: I—I—I—I don’t know what to say, I mean, cause it just looks like I just caught you in a lie and now I don’t know what to believe.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m telling you.
Det. Kim Davis: I don’t know what to believe.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Because you tell me this. I go to verify it. She tells me the opposite and now I’m, now I’m wondering what you’re telling the truth about.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Maybe because she’s, she doesn’t know what the heck’s going on.
Det. Kim Davis: No, she doesn’t. I didn’t tell her.
Daniel Holtzclaw: And I’m glad, but a detective calling her, any other officer, asking her a question like that.
Det. Kim Davis: I know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: She may be scared. And I don’t want to involve her, but—
Det. Kim Davis: She’s involved because—
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s my girlfriend.
Det. Kim Davis: You.
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s, like—
Det. Kim Davis: You need her involved for you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Right.
Det. Kim Davis: But now she’s giving the story that you’re not giving.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m, I’m telling you, I tried to have sex with Carrie, my girlfriend. I know she’s—
Det. Kim Davis: She’s going to remember your weenie twirling around her hoo-haw. You remember that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I know.
Det. Kim Davis: I don’t, I’m sorry. I don’t care how much of a sleeper you are. You remember, because it pisses you off in the middle of the night and you go, ‘Are you serious?!’
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m telling…
Det. Kim Davis: ‘Don’t bother me with that!’
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, maybe you should call and ask her [laughing] if she’s a deep sleeper, because there’s multiple times I’ve tried to do that. Multiple times we’ve had sex. Multiple times she has pushed me off.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, you told me that you have sex every day and she says you did not have sex today.
Daniel Holtzclaw: We didn’t have sex today. No, we didn’t.
Det. Kim Davis: Well, you said you have sex every day.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mostly every day, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: So, if I call her back is she going to tell me…
Daniel Holtzclaw: That we did not.
Det. Kim Davis: …that ya’ll have sex every day?
Daniel Holtzclaw: We did not have sex, but recently, mostly, all, every day, yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: I, I’m a woman and I know what it feels like to be woke up for sex, and I don’t like that, and you remember it and, and I don’t, y—y—I don’t believe you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m telling you the truth. I’m sorry. I tried to have sex with my girlfriend. I did.
01:36:52
Det. Kim Davis: I don’t know. You’re a dude. Does your wife get…
Daniel Holtzclaw: I could…
Det. Kim Davis: …pissed off [laughing] if you try to wake her up in the middle of the night and…
Daniel Holtzclaw: She had a white, white thong on and, and a t-shirt, and…
Det. Kim Davis: Okay, you talk to him. I’m going to call her again.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Okay.
Det. Kim Davis: Because right now I don’t believe you.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Hey, the pants.
Det. Kim Davis: You want me to bring them in?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: In a plastic bag?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah.
Det. Kim Davis: I mean, a brown paper sack. Okay, don’t start yet.
[DET. KIM DAVIS EXITS THE ROOM]
Det. Rocky Gregory: Rowr.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing] And that’s probably her messaging or whatever now.
Det. Rocky Gregory: She’s like, ‘What!?’
Daniel Holtzclaw: And, oh, I wish we didn’t…
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, we’re not.
Daniel Holtzclaw: …have to involve her, Carrie.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, we’re not going to tell her. You’re going to have to explain whatever the situation is.
Daniel Holtzclaw: What’s gonna happen?
Det. Rocky Gregory: You got any questions involving this?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Det. Rocky Gregory: I mean, you—you’ve asked.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I’m getting attacked now. I’m just feeling like, I’m, like, God… bless. [sigh] I want DNA. I want everything. I want… get it done.
Det. Rocky Gregory: We—we—we’re gonna put it to the front of the line, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Get it done.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I can tell you, it usually takes a long time, but because of the situation we will put it at the front of the line, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: I mean, usually on this stuff we do whatever we can.
[DET. KIM DAVIS RE-ENTERS ROOM]
Det. Kim Davis: Here is shorts and a shirt. I don’t know if the shirt will fit in the sack. Before I call Carrie…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Shorts and a shirt.
Det. Kim Davis: You tried to have sex with Carrie.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I tried to have…
Det. Kim Davis: Not somebody else?
Daniel Holtzclaw: My girlfriend, yes. That was in my bed, yes.
Det. Kim Davis: Do you ever cheat on her?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No.
Det. Kim Davis: So, it’s only Carrie right now?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Carrie.
Det. Kim Davis: Okay.
[DET. KIM DAVIS EXITS ROOM]
Det. Rocky Gregory: All right, man. Put your pants in this bag and then put the… it looks like you’re gonna need the… Unless you wanna keep the shirt on. I don’t know. I don’t know if this shirt’s gonna be big enough for you. You’re a big old boy. I was gonna get a Tyvex. I don’t know where these came from. [Shuffling noises] Well…
01:39:11
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Host: At this point, Holtzclaw is alone with Detective Gregory. Holtzclaw is undressing so that Gregory can collect his police uniform pants for testing. Holtzclaw changes into a pair of basketball shorts and a t-shirt.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Det. Rocky Gregory: Can you think of anything?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Will it be okay if I tell my family about this and?
Det. Rocky Gregory: No, you can...
Daniel Holtzclaw: That’s fine. Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Hey, it’s your life, man. Look, we usually have to spend, we spend as much time, any time there’s an allegation, okay, trying to clear up the matter one way or the other. Okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I just don’t want my girlfriend to be involved, you know, in something. [laughing] I tried to have sex with my girlfriend. As bad as that sounds, and as bad as that sounds when she’s asleep, yeah.
Det. Rocky Gregory: No, no you’re fine. Hey, I try to curl up to my wife all the time. Hey, she shoots me down.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I mean, she’s probably, just imagine her just being all nervous and whatnot, you know? This, [sigh]…
Det. Rocky Gregory: We, you can get home and kind of explain everything and…
Daniel Holtzclaw: So, what goes on from now? [phone rings] There she is. Jesus.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Well, you’re headed home obviously, so you’re gonna need some pants. Why don’t you go ahead and get dressed there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: Detective Gregory once again steps out of the room, leaving Holtzclaw alone for the seventh time. Holtzclaw finishes changing clothes, and after only about a minute and a half, opens the Interrogation Room door to let Gregory know that he’s changed and ready.
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Daniel Holtzclaw: You want me to stay here?
Det. Rocky Gregory: Yeah, stay there. Heck, we’re getting, we’re really done with you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Just hang tight.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Can I, can I message her and say I, I’ll—cause she’s probably blowing up my phone.
Det. Rocky Gregory: Oh yeah, yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Just like, hey, I’ll talk…
Det. Rocky Gregory: You’re fine. You’re fine.
Daniel Holtzclaw: [sigh]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host: Still alone in the room, Holtzclaw picks up his personal cell phone and calls Carrie, his girlfriend of the last six months. Carrie has been repeatedly calling his cell phone ever since Detective Davis (someone who she’s never even met,) called her out of the blue and started asking very personal questions about her and Holtzclaw’s sex life.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carrie: Hello?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Hey baby.
Carrie: Hello.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Babe.
Carrie: Yeah.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I need to [laughing] I need to tell you what’s going on. It’s crazy.
Carrie: Okay, well don’t [inaudible].
Daniel Holtzclaw: I said, when will, I’m on, I’m basically on my way home and I’d like to talk to you. What’s going on, is, is crazy.
Carrie: Okay. You’re on your way home?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, gimme, uh, they gotta give me a ride so I don’t know. Probably like ten, fifteen minutes.
Carrie: Til you leave?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Til I, get, fifteen, yeah, around there. I don’t know. Fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes. Around there.
Carrie: So, [inaudible] fifteen minutes after that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes.
Carrie: Seriously, what’s going on [inaudible]?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t know [laughing] it’s, I—I gotta tell you it’s, it’s crazy. It just, it’s nuts. I gotta… So, I, I love you, okay?
Carrie: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I love you.
Carrie: Love you too. Bye.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Bye.
01:42:48
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Host: Shortly after Holtzclaw hangs up with his girlfriend, two uniformed Oklahoma City Police Officers enter the room.
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Unidentified Officer #1: Hey, Dan.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Hey, man.
Unidentified Officer #1: Boy, it’s hot in here.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah, it is.
Unidentified Officer #1: Hey, uh, until this investigation gets all completed, what’s going on, we’re gonna put you on Administrative Leave with Pay, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: Just part of procedures. You know?
Daniel Holtzclaw: [laughing]
Unidentified Officer #1: They gotta do this until it gets all taken care of, okay?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Unidentified Officer #1: So, what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna give you this to sign that you’re receiving it.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And I’m gonna give you a copy to take home. I want you to read it very carefully when you get home.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I will.
Unidentified Officer #1: Cause there’s some detail stuff that people forget to read. You know? Such as, you gotta check in with me on every Tuesday morning before nine o’clock.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: Call me at the station and just make sure I know who you are and where you’re at.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Mm hmm.
Unidentified Officer #1: There’s some things we’ve got to take from you. We already, I think the firearm’s already in there?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, sir.
Unidentified Officer #1: And, and your deal. Um, do you have your, um, your—your shirt in here? We’ll get your badge off that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Unidentified Officer #1: Is that the only badge you have?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, because the other badge is upstairs cause it was, uh, it got lost in a foot chase, so…
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: The other one’s upstairs.
Unidentified Officer #1: Upstairs where?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Uh, with Susan, uh, Chief Assistant.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, so, you haven’t got a replacement yet?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I haven’t yet.
Unidentified Officer #1: You have not.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Not yet.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, well, we need to find out about that as well. So, you just have the one of that and whatever. Let’s go ahead and get that from you.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And we’re going to need your radio too. I’ll just kind of check it off as we go here.
Unidentified Officer #2: Thank you, sir.
Unidentified Officer #1: So, we got the badge and the ra—that radio there. Lieutenant Gregory’s going to take you home too, give you a ride home.
Unidentified Officer #2: Are you still up on North May?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes. Yes, sir.
Unidentified Officer #2: Fourteen. Fourteen Two Hundred?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, sir.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, we got the badge, and then do you have your commission car and entry card with you?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do.
Unidentified Officer #2: And this, the seal missing is from, from the last…
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Unidentified Officer #2: …foot chase thing, right?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, we have the entry card and we have the—
Daniel Holtzclaw: CLEET card.
Unidentified Officer #2: CLEET card, okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: We need your entry card. Is that your entry card?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, this, is this, I’m sorry.
Unidentified Officer #1: What do you have here? Okay, is that all?
Unidentified Officer #2: Uh, CLEET card, his commission card.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, we’ll take all that.
Unidentified Officer #2: And his, his entry card.
Unidentified Officer #1: We got all that. And he’ll, uh, do you have anything else besides your firearm? Do you have a, uh, a shotgun?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do have a shotgun at home.
Unidentified Officer #1: Is it in your vehicle?
Daniel Holtzclaw: It’s at home.
Unidentified Officer #1: It’s at home, okay.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
Unidentified Officer #2: I’ll get that.
Unidentified Officer #1: He’ll grab that.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: When he goes with you, he’ll grab that. Uh, he’ll probably grab your radio charger as well.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And any spare batteries you have there. You don’t have a taser?
Daniel Holtzclaw: I don’t have a taser.
Unidentified Officer #1: Nothing like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t.
Unidentified Officer #1: Uh, we have your, I have the keys to your car. Do you have any, uh, keys to the station or anything like that?
Daniel Holtzclaw: No, I don’t.
01:45:15
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, all right. Then this will be it. Okay, I’m going to let you sign this that you’re receiving it, okay? Then I’m going to give you your own copy, okay, so you can read it. Now, you can’t wear your uniform. Of course, we have all your badge and gun. You can’t work extra jobs. You can’t drive City vehicles. [mumbling] And then, y—you know, those guys will be in touch with you for any further follow up with that, you know.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And if you, be sure and read this, like I said, because, you know, if you go out of town you’ve got to call.
Daniel Holtzclaw: I do?
Unidentified Officer #1: And let us know first.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: If you go, uh, if you’re gonna go out of state, you need to get permission from us.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: [inaudible] Read it very carefully.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: That’s your copy right there and I’m gonna witness it. [pause] Okay, I think that’s it. Arthur?
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And you’ll take care, uh, let me, I’ll take the, uh… [pause] yeah, I—I’ll take that and the badge if you want too and the radio.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: I’ll, I’ll just take that. If you could get the…
[PHONE RINGS]
Unidentified Officer #2: And I’ll get, I’ll get the things that he has at home.
Unidentified Officer #1: Yeah, and I. I…
Unidentified Officer #2: Let me call you back.
Unidentified Officer #1: I’m pretty sure that, uh, Melvin’s working tonight.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: And he can just let you in my office and stick it in there.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay, I will.
Unidentified Officer #1: I’m, I’m almost positive he is working tonight.
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: I would, I would guess.
Unidentified Officer #2: And he’s gonna take these things home?
Unidentified Officer #1: Yes. He can take those home wit—you can take those home, that, those items with you, you can take.
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: All right?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay, thanks Arthur.
Unidentified Officer #2: I will, I will go bring those things back.
Unidentified Officer #1: Okay.
[UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER #1 EXITS ROOM]
[PARTIAL CONVERSATION CAN BE HEARD IN HALLWAY]
Unidentified Officer #1: I’ll, uh, [inaudible]
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: I do need, Arthur, I do need [inaudible].
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay.
Unidentified Officer #1: [Inaudible]
Unidentified Officer #2: Okay, yeah. Let’s go ahead and grab.
Unidentified Officer #1: All right, thank you.
Unidentified Officer #2: Sorry about that. Dan, you ready?
Daniel Holtzclaw: Yeah.
01:47:19
Host: And, like that, it’s over. Daniel Holtzclaw is led out of the Interrogation Room and the two officers drive him to his apartment on the Northwest side of town. There, his girlfriend waits for him to try to make sense of everything that has transpired since he left for work earlier that afternoon. This is going to conclude this episode. As I mentioned earlier, I will next be posting a condensed version of Holtzclaw’s interrogation with my commentary. I hope you will join me as I point out the techniques that detectives apply in this interrogation, and what bodes well for Daniel’s defense and what creates some red flags. I will also be posting the transcript of Holtzclaw’s interrogation and the video to this season’s homepage under episode two at holtzclawtrial.com. This serialized podcast of Oklahoma vs. Daniel Holtzclaw follows the timeline and perspective of the investigation but with the scrutiny of the defense. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to subscribe and give us a five star review. If you would like to know more and see many of the files used to compile this episode, please visit this season’s homepage at holtzclawtrial.com. You can also follow updates on our Facebook page at In Defense of Daniel Holtzclaw, or on Twitter @HoltzclawTrial. Bates Investigates - Season One: the Daniel Holtzclaw case is researched, produced, and edited by me, Brian Bates. This has been a bug stomper production.